YUNETTA SPRING: Spring Forth Counselling, [CROSSTALK 00:00:19].
PATRICK CASALE: Oh, it's Forth Counseling, almost got it. And you're the first guest that I've had on since throat surgery. And I'm really grateful that you are making the time to be here. And I'm excited to talk to you again.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you too, as well. It's always fun talking with a buddy and I'm honored. I didn't know this is the first one you've had since the first surgery.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah.
YUNETTA SPRING: Okay.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, when we put it out in our like, our Facebook chat, you were the first person to sign up out of the five of them. So, you are the first and I appreciate it. So, it's easier to start recording again with friends and people that you have a lot of conversation with, in general, because then less awkward conversation, less time for me to fill conversation too.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, less pressure, less pressure, but you sound great, you sound great.LE: Oh, thank you. [CROSSTALK:
YUNETTA SPRING: You sound, you know, like yourself, you sound good.
PATRICK CASALE: Work in progress. And it's a good kind of segue into what you and I were going to talk about today in a lot of ways, because I know we threw around some topics and you mentioned, you know, staying grounded to grow, which I like that a lot, right? Kelsey, please use that as the title.
But also, just like having success and the pendulum swing that comes with success, too. And how much emotion is wrapped up into what we do, when we're doing our own healing work, when we're working in our businesses, because you own multiple businesses, I own multiple businesses, and the more you do your own work, I think there's a direct correlation between you doing your own work, and healing journey, and the success that you can have. And it's really important to be doing that as helping professionals. So, I wanted to get your take on, kind of your point of view in that regard.at I mean? So, [INDISCERNIBLE:
PATRICK CASALE: Doing that on purpose.
YUNETTA SPRING: So, Patrick is used to my squarely brain and how I go off on tangents. So, I love talking to Patrick, can't say no. But yeah, I think it's so important as business owners, as professionals, as therapists, because we take on so many things. And because our businesses are typically centered around like supporting folks, helping folks serving in various capacities, that we are constantly checking in and aware of what's going on with us.
Because you can easily move over to like, you know, some spaces that aren't necessarily healthy in this profession like this, you know what I mean? Before you know it. So, it's really important that we stay grounded and centered in that way.
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and that's a really good point. And that switch does flip really quickly. Especially, if we're not taking care of ourselves.
My staff and I went on a holiday party on Friday and we were talking about the Enneagram. I'm talking about the kind of the shadow sides or like the unhealthier sides of your Enneagram number. And, you know, mine is a seven where it's like travel, and spontaneity, and creativity, and sensory seeking, and stimulation. And then the flip side is like becoming really, really panicked, really, really insecure, really, really anxious, really feeling rundown and worn down.
And it's so crucial that I pay attention to those things, because that can happen really quickly, that pendulum can swing even if you're successful. And you're, you know, however, you quantify or define success.
And then the other side of the coin is like you have to be taking care of yourself throughout this process, throughout this journey. It's just really, really important. Especially, like you said, when we are helping professionals as well, because I think a lot of people get into this profession to heal themselves through the work that they do. And if you're not doing your own work that is really problematic.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, yeah. And it's crazy, because I think a lot of us get into the profession to heal ourselves, but aren't consciously aware that that's why we got into it, you know? So, having that conscious awareness that this was not just because you were good, you know, at talking to people or, you know, a good listener, you know? There are reasons why that part of you exists. And oftentimes, it was created from survival. Like, it was the way that you kind of were able to take up, and notice your environments, and assess situations so that you could be okay or so that the people around you were okay.
So, that skill you developed through whatever, you know, your history, or your trauma history, or whatever might look like is essentially, in most cases, what brought you to this profession.
So, knowing that, and also knowing that as you achieve different levels of success, you know, that that also gets activated and it has to be reassessed, ooh, that round too, Patrick.
PATRICK CASALE: You're feeling good today. I can tell whenever you're griming, feeling creative. That's like good head space.h, that's when [INDISCERNIBLE:
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I love that. And I think reassessing is really crucial, taking inventory of what's important, and are you feeling like you're in alignment with the values that are driving you in terms of making your decisions, who you're collaborating with, who you're connecting with, what your next venture is going to be or what your next goal is going to be. Because if it's not in alignment, we all know how fucked up things can get, how quickly they can crumble if you're kind of pursuing something for the wrong reasons.
And I love that you are saying, you know, being able to be successful by reassessing and I think that reassessing throughout your career is crucial, not just as a helper, but if you are an entrepreneur listening to this podcast, like, constantly reassessing and making sure that you're taking inventory of what's working, what's not, what feels good for me right now, what doesn't? What do I want to remove from my life? What do I want to add more of into my life? And just really making sure that you're being really intentional.
And I love that you're talking about your story, your origin story, more or less your childhood, your experiences, because they all shape who you are as an adult. And I think that we can often lose sight over the fact of our blind spots if we've done some healing work, or we've done some growth work. And we can almost say, like, you almost mentioned before, "Oh, I've kind of got to the finish line now." Like, "I don't have to do any more of this."
And there is no finish line in healing work. And there's probably no finish line in terms of the entrepreneurial journey either.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, agree, agree, there is no finish line. And for somebody, like I'll say like me, who kind of is motivated and thrives off of, like, making an achievement and like completing something, to know that it's kind of like, "Damn!" You know that is something that I think we had a conversation a while ago about, like, how do you continue to progress in business professionally when you're no longer motivated or pushed by that? Almost like that trauma response, right? Like, I've always been driven by the need to kind of accomplish this thing or get out of this adverse situation, or this, you know, tumultuous, whatever environment.
And now I've done a lot of work to where that's not my reality, or that's not my norm anymore. So, for me, this year has been a lot of it, like, how do I stay motivated when there isn't something that I'm trying to, like, I don't have to accomplish this, right? It's not like do or die.
PATRICK CASALE: It's opposite. It no longer feels like it's out of necessity.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And that necessity is there and it's like, this either works or, you know, you go hungry or whatever the case may be. There's a lot more intrinsic motivation. But when you start to become more successful, make more money, you know, you can pay your bills more comfortably, that motivation can certainly dissipate and I think that's a feeling of safety, right? Of like, "Okay, I can breathe, I can take the foot off the gas." But I like that you're also asking like, but then what becomes the motivating factor? So, for you, what has become the motivation? What's kind of the driving force when you start to examine that?, how do I show up [CROSSTALK:
PATRICK CASALE: Isn't that scary too in a way?
YUNETTA SPRING: It can be, it can be really scary to tap into that because then it becomes more about, like, me being aligned and what I want versus what I feel like somebody else needs.
PATRICK CASALE: Right, absolutely. And that's such a crucial pivot point as a healthy professional, especially, as you resolve your own trauma story. I know you are an expert in helping other people work through their trauma. And it's interesting, because I find that to be kind of the frightening part of what do I want? What aligns with what I want? Because that's where you do the deeper dives in a lot of ways in some of these instances of like, what's really sparking you? Like, what feels really enjoyable? And for those of us who are neurodivergent ADHDers, especially, what feels enjoyable is really important, because if it's not stimulating, you're not going to fucking do it.
YUNETTA SPRING: It's not happening, it's not happening. Oh, what feels stimulating in this moment, like, three days later is not stimulating anymore? And it's like, why did I even want to do that? What was even drawing me to that? And now you're kind of, you know, for me, it's like, okay, so now I either need to continue to complete something that I thought was exciting and inspired me in this particular moment and now I'm not motivated to kind of follow through.
So, that has been something I've had to learn and still constantly, you know, have to learn. And I'm so grateful for our mastermind group, because we can throw stuff out and around to each other, you know? And you could be like, "Yunetta, what are you doing?"
PATRICK CASALE: But you have to, like, feel safe enough and secure enough to receive that feedback too, I think, right? Of like, "What are you doing?" And sometimes it's just, we don't see our own processes when we're in the thick of it. And you can get really worked up about something or excited about something that future you is going to really regret when you start to follow in that rabbit trail or go down that rabbit hole.
And I think I mentioned something to you the other day in that chat of like, I am struggling to figure out what's next. And for me, that has been really hard, because without that spark, without that passion, like, I know I can do a lot of things well, but do I want to do them? That's really important.
And this whole season pre and post-surgery there has been a lot of self-evaluation, and introspection, and assessment, because there's a lot of taking inventory of you don't have as much energy as you'd like to have, your voice comes and goes, you know, you're not happy with your recovery right now, right? So, it's like, what comes next is really challenging for me. I'm trying to figure out what that driving force is because, like you said, okay, if you've become successful, or if you're doing the next thing, and I like accomplishment too, certainly, a driving force. So, what is the next thing going to be about? And what is the motivating factor behind it?
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, yeah, and listening to you thinking about that, I think sometimes we can take for granted our energy levels, and our capacity, and what we're capable of doing. And think just, you know, I always say, just because you can do it doesn't mean you need to, right?
So, for you, and your experience, and what you've been going through, like recovering from surgery is really helping me to be more mindful of like, there's so many things that you could be doing that you don't have the capacity right now to do, and grappling, and accepting, and grieving over that, and being very mindful of what you focus your energy and attention on is really helping me to be more mindful to like focus what I put my energy and attention on to knowing that just because you might have a little bit more energy, there may be a time when you don't, right? And there may be situations that you don't need to and how do you become more focused on, you know, what's most important and what you really want? And how do you stay more, you know, aligned and authentic? So, watching you deal with that has been very helpful, you know, for me personally.
PATRICK CASALE: It's interesting to hear that. You know, when we're looking at it from our own perspective, it's like, "Oh, man, I'm not doing enough." Right? And then someone else may be watching what you're doing and gaining something from it. And it's just very interesting to see different processes.
And I think it's hard for people who have a hard time with stillness. Like, recovery is challenging and you try to test your capacity when you feel good. And then that leaves you feeling worse, which in turn means like more recharge time, more stillness, more like unsettling and discomfort that comes with it for those of us who like to be on the go, or on the move, or in movement. And it's just a reevaluation of what's important.
And I've turned away a lot of individual coaching since before October, before my surgery. And I've got a lot of requests, which I'm very grateful for. But I don't have the desire to do it, the capacity to do it, or the drive to do it anymore.
And there's a lot of fearfulness in letting go of something that is making you money and keeping you, "Relevant." But I know that my energy and capacity, knowing more about the way my brain works and how I absorb energy, it's more better suited in group work, it's more better suited in group coaching programs, retreats, things like that. And I'll have to let go of the, "Okay, but you're really good at one on one coaching, or you're really good at teaching people how to do this."
And in reality, it's like, yeah, but if you don't enjoy it anymore, it's really not good for either party. And it's definitely not good for your energy levels at all.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, yeah, it's a grief, you know? That's something that we have to grieve as we, I guess, grow and become, "More successful." Or as we evolve as business owners and clinicians. There are definitely things that we have to grieve that I know I can do this well, I know I can do it effortlessly, in some cases, but this isn't what's going to serve this version of me, and my life, and where I am. And although I want to be able to give back and support people in this way, it's not going to allow me to be fully aligned and authentic to where I am right now. So, I have to let that go. You know, I don't have to, I'm choosing to let that go, because I know I've been in spaces where I've held on to things way too long, you know, because of that, not wanting to, well, I know I can do it and I know it's going to bring in money, so why not?
But learning that it's more valuable, meaningful, and abundant if I'm doing things that feel fully aligned. Like, I'm going to feel better at the end of the day if I'm doing this. And that is just as important, if not more important, you know, the servicing folks, you know?
PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely, that's so well said. And I think so often we're looking at the short term versus the long term and saying like, in the short term, if I turn all this stuff down that I'm good at, but don't want to do or don't have capacity to do, that's money lost, or that's like, you know, again, whatever we're putting value on.
But in reality, if you're opening up space, and energy, and capacity, and intentionality, and that gives you clarity on where you're going, or what you're doing next, or how you're going to move intentionally.
Because in alignment, acting with authenticity, that feels like it's second nature. It shouldn't feel forced. But when it feels forced, when you're operating from that place of scarcity, or panic, or fearfulness, that's when things are really, really hard. And it's really hard to just say like, I'm going to force myself out of this way of thinking or feeling right now.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, it takes way more energy, way more energy. You know, last week, I was able to travel, you know, and sit in on the radio show for a week, which was so fun, you know? It was like getting up at 5:00 AM. I didn't even feel it and I like my sleep, so not getting up having to be there at 5:00 AM, but getting up like around 3:45 and, you know, my energy level throughout the day, like I was up, you know? I wasn't tired, I got a little nap in. But being able to do that and you know, hold space for mental health on that platform was amazing.
And then being able to go down there to Texas and speak for a law firm, and just being in that space, it was so fulfilling, but that meant that I didn't get to see clients for a week, right? And I didn't get to do, like, my EMDR consultation calls and stuff like that. And there was a little bit of, you know, like, grief and, you know, responsibility that I felt like I was kind of, you know, misplaced in terms of, "Man, you're not seeing your clients or your consultees to go do this, and have fun?" You know what I mean? But still, work but in a different way.
So, that was something that I was you know, kind of dealing with then noticing the shift, but like I was so happy, and not to say that didn't make… you know, my clients and consultees don't make me happy, but I'm more, I guess you could say balanced or fulfilled when I'm able to do different things and multiple things.
So, giving myself space to do that, kind of letting my people know from job, like, if you want to work with me, then there're going to be times when I'm here and times when I'm not. And if you're okay with that, and if I feel like clinically that's appropriate for what you're showing up with, then it's okay for me to do both, you know?
PATRICK CASALE: Right, and I'm sure that felt, one, I just want to say, I'm really proud of you. And I hope that you can take in the fact that you got to fly out to Dallas and speak to a bunch of lawyers about mental health care, telling them that twerking was mental health care. So there, you got to throw that in the mix.
And that you get to go on the radio show, because I know, you know, as a friend of yours, that the radio show can make you anxious at, you know, how am I going to be received? Am I going to say the right thing? And it always goes well. And as an outsider looking in, I'm like, "Yunetta is fucking amazing." And I just want to say that because it's just really, really impressive.
And the way that you show up authentically, and real, and you just share, and you're vulnerable, and that's what people want, and that's what helps people heal and feel connected. So, you're doing that at a larger scale when you're able to focus attention on the radio show, or at a law firm, or at a speaking engagement than you can in one-on-one consulting and therapy. And it's so hard to balance both. And the guilt can be really real, when you're like, "I'm doing these things that are really fun and motivating. But I have these clients too."
And I think it is about finding that balance, that kind of middle ground where both can exist. But you can set really clear boundaries and expectations, not only with the people you work with, but with yourself too. And just how crucial it is to give yourself permission to be bigger, to grow, to step into these arenas where you don't always feel comfortable.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, yeah, thank you for that friend, I appreciate it, I greatly appreciate that. And I think a part of it, too, is recognizing that at one point that was the goal, right? Having my private practice was the goal, right? There was a time when I didn't know if I could do that. Or starting my consultation business was the goal, there was a point in time where I didn't know that I could do that, right?
So, to be able to transition to something different, or something that's reaching people at a larger scale, it's almost like, "Well, who do you think you is?" You know? You know, you outgrow your britches tight, you know, that stuff that kind of comes up from that narrative, those past trauma narratives that it's not, and you know, we talked last time on the podcast of that transition, like, it's okay to shine, like, it's okay to take up space and those things. Whereas before that was unsafe, and now it's becoming, for me, that safe's and that's welcomed, and that's okay, you know?
So, being able to get to that point where you can grow, to stay grounded, know where you came from, and what you endured, but also know that it is okay for you to branch out and do these other things, you know, in a safe way, you know, that that's fine, too, yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: I love it. And I'm sure that growing into these new spaces, you're having a lot of similar feelings, and thoughts and emotions around this, like you did when you started your private practice, like you did when you started your coaching and consulting business of like, "Who the hell am I for someone to call and do one 60-minute session one-on-one with?" Let alone, "Who the hell am I to be speaking in front of an entire room full of people with them hanging on every word that I'm saying?
Man, that thought for me, that feeling of who the hell am I? And "Imposter syndrome." Or whatever we want to call it, I think is really important in a lot of ways, because I also think that means there's some humility there and that assessment process, like you mentioned, of like, I'm checking in with myself, and I'm stepping into embrace this fear as well, and I'm not letting it paralyze me, and I'm not letting it prevent me from moving forward.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, yeah. I had a moment when I was speaking to the law firm, and lawyers, they are trained to have that face, right? And they're all looking at me, and I'm being myself and cracking jokes. And it was just like this, you know, face.
And I had a split second of, you know, like, some angst and I was able to center myself on that, like, "Who am I?" Like, "Who do you, how do you…" and I was like, "I'm human. Guess what, I'm human. And guess what? They human. So, I know that there is something in this presentation that is a human experience, and that whether or not they feel safe or comfortable to show that…" They're work, I mean, I don't expect them to be in and out everything, that won't be, you know, welcomed or advised.
But I was able to, like rest in that certainty that we are all human, and something on there is going to hit home for somebody. And if they just walk away with one small thing that they could take back, you know, then that's good enough for me, and I don't have to know that they got it. All I have to do is be open to present it, right? But it's not my responsibility that they get it and I mean, they were great, they were so welcoming and warm, and, you know, came up, and chatted with me and everything. It wasn't like it was a bad experience.
But you know, when you're speaking in front of a crowd that you're not familiar with, we always have those split-second, you know, type of angst or we get in our head a little bit. And that kind of happened. And that's how I was able to ground myself in this is a human experience and we all are dealing with something, you know, in some way, shape, or form.m anxious, but [INDISCERNIBLE:
And without doing the work, I'm sure it would have been a hell of a lot harder to really get grounded in that thought, and that feeling, and really trust that instinct as well.
YUNETTA SPRING:know, five, three [CROSSTALK:
PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:27:15] realization would have turned into like, this paralyzation process of, "Oh, my God, I can never do this again, because I overlooked this one thing."
And it's just amazing, the trajectory of anyone's career and their character arc, so to speak, of like, your story is so defined by the work that you do even when you can't see it, even when you're doing the work, and it's fucking hard, and it's painful, and it's confusing, and you don't see the immediate results.
Like, Yunetta, five years ago till now I imagine there's been massive amounts of growth, and shifts, and just transformations along the way.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I can look at those without… I've been saying this all day in sessions and everything, kind of looking at those from that space of curiosity and not judgment, you know? Whereas before a lot of how I view myself and my experiences with, "Oh, you shouldn't do that." Or, "You messed up on that." Or whatever the case may be. But just from that space of curiosity, "I wonder why that's what you chose." Or, "I wonder why that upset you so much, you know? I wonder why that had you thinking about it for weeks?"
And when you can look at it from that space, it gives us more room to be more compassionate, you know, to ourselves about our experience and our journey. And every single thing that I have experienced up until this point, it makes so much sense why this is how I had experienced it, because of my life, my background, my experiences, my upbringing, and everything in between. So, being able to look at that from a space of curiosity and compassion has completely changed how I view and assess situations
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. Lots of great wisdom and just great points made today. And it's just amazing being your friend, and your colleague, and rooting you on, and seeing what you're creating. I mean, you are a published author now, and podcast host, and on the radio, and speaking at conferences, and trainings, and running your coaching programs. It's crazy, it's amazing.So, I'm grateful for the [PH:
PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, well said. And for those of you listening, you know, I really encourage you to seek that group out for yourself. Put yourself out there if you don't feel like you have anyone in your corner right now who gets it, it's really important, I think it's really, really important to surround yourself with people who not only get it, that are going to be supportive in a good way, not like echo chamber supportive, but more like, I support you, and I'm able to offer you feedback and offer my, you know, suggestions and critiques here and there as well.
And just the ability to surround yourself with people who want you to do well, and vice versa. And that abundance mindset of, we can all be successful, we can all exist, because we all have our own audiences, and approaches, and ways of doing things. And we're all going to attract different clients. And that's really important to remember for those of you who are starting out, or that when that insecurity comes ramping up to just be like, "Where's this coming from?" Be curious about it, like Yunetta said, and just assessing as you go, and just really doing the healing work. I think it's really, really importantYUNETTA SPRING: Yes,:
And there's a lot of people that connect in groups to be leeches, right? To see what can I get from this person versus what can I pour into this group as well? So, being mindful of that. If you are in group spaces, and you're taking more than you're receiving, that could be problematic, right? And that could create some ruptures and just some bad business, you know, bad energy around making… and it could be harmful to the other people within the group. So, just making sure that we are pouring just as much as we are receiving when we connect in these group settings.
PATRICK CASALE: I love it. Thank you for that. And a lot of great points today, Yunetta, and I appreciate you being the first person on and as I can tell already, I'm losing my voice already. So, now I know the limitations.
YUNETTA SPRING: You know your limit, you know your limit. Hopefully, we didn't go over it, but on my end, you sound like Patrick.
PATRICK CASALE: Thank you. Oh, tell everyone where they can find more of you on social media and some of the stuff that you're offering so they can connect with you. And we'll put that in the show notes for everybody as well.
YUNETTA SPRING: Cool, cool, cool. So, you can find me on social at Yunetta Spring on all platforms, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. You can also follow my counseling pages, which is Spring Forth Counseling and Ground Breakers Therapy. Ground Breakers Therapy is my BIPOC, EMDR space that is geared towards highlighting BIPOC, EMDR therapists. So, if you are a BIPOC, EMDR therapist, join the directory, people are looking for you. So, I have that directory ready for you all. And then, also, yunettaspring.com will get you to both places. So, that's kind of like the landing spot for everything.'m really excited to see what:
YUNETTA SPRING: Yeah, let's go.
PATRICK CASALE: I want to see you in New Orleans and in Spain.
YUNETTA SPRING: Yes, I know, exciting. That is right around the corner.
PATRICK CASALE: I know. Counting down the days for sure. For everyone listening to the All Things Private Practice Podcast, new episodes come out every Sunday morning on all major platforms. Like, download, subscribe, and share. Doubt yourself, do it anyway. We'll see you next week. Thanks, Yunetta.
YUNETTA SPRING: Peace.