Episode 68

Episode 68: How Your Relationship With Money Affects Your Business [featuring David Frank]

“What is your relationship with money?” Is this a question that you can easily answer, or do you not really know the role money plays in your life and business?

Do you ever feel anxious or lost around the topic of money and can’t recognize how you are doing with your finances no matter how much you make or plan for?

If you’re struggling with money trauma, do you wonder where the healthy intersection of emotion and money is?

Well, this episode is for you.

In this episode, I talk with David Frank, owner of Turning Point Financial Services.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

  1. Dispel some of the common myths around money and how to shift your thinking for more financial success.
  2. Understand how you don’t need tons of money to start making your financial plan and that it’s never too late to start.
  3. Identify ways to balance emotions and money to ensure healthy financial choices and mindset.

So, if you are feeling lost around money issues or find yourself putting off important decisions involving your finances and preparing for the future, it’s a good time to really look at more than just “the books” and start thinking about how to find a healthy relationship around the ebb and flow of money. Remember that money comes and money goes, and that is perfectly natural.

If you can relate to this or just want to learn more about finances in private practice, this episode is a great place to start.

More about David (Financial Planner for Therapists):

David Frank is on a mission to ensure every therapist has access to unbiased and fiduciary financial advice!

Through the firm he founded, Turning Point Financial Life Planning, he helps therapists navigate every element of their financial lives: from understanding your practice P&L and building a personal budget to managing student loan debt and investing for retirement... and everything in between.

Dave earned both his undergraduate and MBA degrees in finance and he also completed a certificate in personal financial planning. He's worked for over twenty years in investment banking, corporate finance, and now personal finance. 

Don't let his love of the tax code and spreadsheets scare you off! You're just as likely to find him with his nose buried in one of Pema Chodron's books as reading up on the latest finance planning techniques.

David is offering 20% off his Quick Start Coaching Intensive to listeners of the All Things Private Practice Podcast.

David's Website: turningpointhq.com

Klontz Money Script Test (created by Dr. Brad Klontz): www.bradklontz.com/moneyscriptstest


🎙️ Listen to more episodes of the All Things Private Practice Podcast here: www.allthingspractice.com/all-things-private-practice-podcast

🎙️Spotify: atppod.com/spotify

🎙️Apple Podcasts: atppod.com/apple

🎙️Google Podcasts: atppod.com/google

🗨️ Join the All Things Private Practice FB Community:  www.facebook.com/groups/privatepracticebuilding


Mentioned in this episode:

A Thanks to Our Sponsor, The Receptionist for iPad!

I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode. As you prepare for the new year as a private practice owner, one area of your business where you might be able to level up your client experience is from the moment that they enter your office and check in with you. For many private practices, the client check-in process can be a bit awkward and confusing. Clients often enter into an empty waiting room. And chances are you're wrapping up a session with someone else, so there's no way of knowing when they arrive. With a visitor management system like The Receptionist for iPad, you can provide clients with a discreet and secure way to check in for their appointment while instantly being notified of their arrival. What's more, The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where clients can scan a QR code to check in, which negates the need for you to buy an iPad and stand. Go to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice and sign up for a free 14-day trial. When you do, you'll get your first month free. And don't forget to ask about our iPad list check-in option.

Visit the website for The Receptionist for iPad here!


PATRICK CASALE: Hey everyone, you are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Patrick Casale, joined today by Dave Frank, owner of Turning Point Financial Services, helping therapist's kind of with their finances and their money stuff. And we all know how that goes.

So, Dave, I'm really happy to have you on here, and just know I love to talk about this topic, in general.

DAVID FRANK: Thanks. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. I mean, yeah, finance stuff, money stuff, being a small business owner because that's what your private practice is, it's a small business. Yeah, and I love talking about all this stuff because there are so… like, the intersection of money and emotion is kind of where I like to live.

And yeah, there are like so many tools, and techniques, and tech strategies, and investing strategies we can talk about. But at the end of the day, what I really like to talk about is like, how do we help you, you listener, you client, whomever I'm working with, really lead a better life? And part of that is reducing, I want to be careful what I say here, reducing anxiety around money, reducing worry around money.

And also, just like normalizing that money worry and money anxiety is just something we all experience. And we can work with those feelings and emotions, and not let them shut us down. We're trying to entirely get rid of them or thinking that other people that are like better business owners, or more successful private practitioners, or more established therapists, like don't have these experiences, or didn't have these experiences and just kind of like dispelling some of those myths. So, excited to be here.

PATRICK CASALE: Those are all such good points. And you know, we can always talk about practical stuff, right? And like how-to's, but-


PATRICK CASALE: ... I think this podcast has really evolved into the emotional side of being an entrepreneur and money brings up a lot of shit for people. You know, whether it's in your own money trauma, maybe you lived in some poverty growing up, maybe, you know, culturally, you've always had to work so much harder, financially, to get by and to survive. And money anxiety is real, money trauma is real. And I think the profession of being a helper and mental health therapist, there's a lot of shamefulness around money and charging fees in this business too that comes up when it's like, "I shouldn't be charging, I should be basically giving this away for free or for a very low price."

DAVID FRANK: Right? God, man, yeah, there's so much to unpack there. Like, yeah, I mean, money touches, basically, everything, whether it's, how much time do I have to work? How much time can I take off work? Can I spend time with my kids or my significant other, my partner? Can I go on a vacation? Like, how stressed out do I need to be? You know? Like, is it okay? Like, am I allowed to only work? Like, see 10 clients a week and still charge enough to get all my financial needs met? Like is that okay? Yeah?

And I think the answer to that question is yes. But what, like, so many people I talk to they just want to know, like, "Is this okay?" Like, "Is what I'm doing okay?" And I'm like, "Well, I don't know. Like, what does okay mean to you? Like, what does it look like to be okay? And what does it look like to not be okay?" And just to get like… because as you said, so there's so much shit here, there's so much work that you can do, there's so much depth to all of it.

And I think one of the more important things, I won't say most important thing because I don't know what the most important thing is, but one of the more important things is just sort of being willing to sit with your money stuff and just kind of feel the feels and experience it, maybe even notice bodily sensations as you sit with that stuff so you don't always have to run away from it. Because I think that's when people tend to get themselves a little bit crosswise, or in a little bit of trouble when it's so uncomfortable to sit with that we react. Like just, "I'm just going to do this thing and react and get out of this discomfort just quickly." We don't want to react. Of course, we want to sit with it and be like, hmm, okay, and like investigate it, be curious about it, and then respond to whatever situation we're in.

PATRICK CASALE: Those are some really good points. And I do think it's very reactionary, in a lot of ways. And, you know, you made a good point that I bring up in coaching a lot. There's a lot of different numbers at play here. Like, but you obviously need to know how much money do I need to make to pay the bills, survive, keep the lights on, right? That's something we have to know.

And then another important piece that a lot of people really struggle with is what do you really want to be making and what do you really want to be working towards financially? And a lot of people, especially, in this field, have a very hard time answering that question because it may be came out of community mental health or the narrative around this profession is you don't get into the field to make money, you get in to help.


PATRICK CASALE: And a lot of shit comes up when I ask that question of like, how many weeks off would you like to have? How much money would you like to make? And you have to know those numbers in order to set your rates, in order to understand how many hours you need to work a week. And a lot of therapists just simply cannot comprehend how to put that into place or into structure.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, I mean, it is tough. And you know, I think it's like session rate is like a big one. It's like, I don't know what to charge. And it's so easy to fall into the trap of what other people's opinions are around that. And I think you even, yeah, I forget exactly what you were saying before. But the words, like, when you're in conversation with someone else, or even when you're in internal conversation with yourself, I think the two things to, like, when you hear, like, you should, or I should, or you have, what you have to do. Like, okay, I think those are red flags. And they're like, it's sort of like, one of my favorite expressions is like, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink, right? Like, and it's just like a fun expression.

But like, I think, the same, like, advice, typically, when we get advice from other people in Facebook groups, or not every Facebook group, but just like, you know, and community, and conferences, and whatever, if we're getting advice, I think, the same can often be said. So frequently, people are giving advice, it's autobiographical, really. That means like, they're giving advice that they need to hear themselves, or like an earlier version of themselves needed to hear. So, I always tell people, like, just be very careful of advice. Just be like, "Oh, great. Well, thanks so much for sharing that. I'm curious, can you just tell me a little bit more about your personal experiences that have led you to that conclusion?" Because like, that's what's going to be help, I think.

Like, we all have personal experiences, professional, and personal, that have led us to our beliefs, right? And including the beliefs around what therapists should or should not charge. So, it's just like, yeah, let's hear that experience, let's learn from other people's experience and understand whether that experience applies to your situation or not? Because it often doesn't.

PATRICK CASALE: Those are some really fantastic points because I think so much we get caught up in the comparison trap of, "Hey, what is everyone doing around me? What do people telling me I should be doing?" And that's not useful when it comes to your unique and individual situation in any sense of the world, not just financially.

And I think that you're absolutely correct. Like, we have to know what's coming up for us, what do we need in terms of financial planning and financial goals because 99% of therapists don't have a fucking clue when it comes to business ownership. And we're kind of just like, scattered, doing whatever, and we don't really have systems and we don't know what we're doing. And we're like, "I don't have a retirement, I don't have A, B, and C."

And it's like, yeah, we can overlook those things and that can be really troubling too because then you can start to think to yourself, "I must not be a good business owner because I don't know where my money's going, I don't know what's happening with my money, and I'm just kind of like flying by the seat of my pants every day."

DAVID FRANK: Oh, my God. Yeah. So, okay, I love this, right? Because like it's okay, right? Like, just totally, like, all of that is okay. Like, flying by the seat of your pants, having no idea what you're doing? I don't know, Patrick, do you have any idea what you're doing? Because like, I personally have no idea what I'm doing.

PATRICK CASALE: 99% of the time I have no fucking clue what I'm doing and I'm building the plane as I apply it and figuring it out by making mistakes.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, exactly. And the same applies to our money life. Like, I'm not implying like you have amazing clinical training, you have like intense skills like you can help so many people, you know what you're doing. But then you're out there doing all these other things like building businesses, just like figuring stuff out.

And same goes for me. Like, yeah, I have all kinds of training and techniques around financial planning and investing, and all these things. And I'm doing the same thing as you all. Like, I'm building my own business, you know, and building the airplane as I'm flying. And it's just okay.

So, like, that's how everyone does it. Like, there's two types of people in the world, I think. Those who admit they have no idea what they're doing and those people who say they have no idea what they're doing, even though they don't. They might not realize that but they don't.

And like, it's okay. So, like, if you set your rate when you first start out, and you realize, "Ah, this was not thoughtful or correct." If you've been in private practice for a number of years, and you realize, "Oh, I haven't been saving money." Or, "I don't have a retirement plan set up." Or, "My bookkeeping is a mess." Or even like, "Oh, I haven't filed taxes for a couple of years." Like, whatever it is, like, it's okay. These things happen.

Like, is it perfect? Of course, it's not perfect because life isn't perfect. It's really messy and humans aren't perfect. We're really messy. It's just okay. And so, that's why it's like, just show up, and look at what's going on, and look at where you are, and just see it with as much clarity as you can. And that takes courage, man, sometimes it really takes courage. And then just figure out like, okay, well here's where I am and where do I go from here? That's all. I mean, easier said than done. But like, it's okay.

PATRICK CASALE: It's kind of life in a nutshell, right? And-


PATRICK CASALE: …as therapists, we help other people all the time recognize that it's okay to not be okay. And it's really hard to take our own advice. I think we're a profession who often don't practice what we preach in a lot of ways to our clients. And that can come back to bite us. And ultimately, I think that people are embarrassed sometimes to say, I need help with this, or I don't understand this. And instead of asking for the help, I'm going to try to do it on my own, or this is bringing up too much shame for me, and I'm just going to stuff it down, or I'm not going to deal with it.

And in reality, if you could actually just be like, "Hey, I don't know what I'm doing, I need some help." I mean, most people are going to be like, "Oh, see, so and so." Or, "Get this really great advice." Or like, "Contact this service and they can help you." And I just think we have to be vulnerable enough to put it out there when we're struggling. And it doesn't just mean money, that's anything.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, I totally agree with that, 100%, 110%, if that's the thing. Like, and the other thing is like asking for help and being vulnerable, it's important for us and it's an act of leadership. Like, it's an act of service. Like, asking for help, and being vulnerable, you're normalizing it and being like, it is okay to ask for help in this area, it is okay to feel like you don't know what the fuck you're doing because most of us don't. It's just like, it's okay. And it's so common, like, I forget which guest but one of your earlier guests mentioned just an experience he had had earlier in life where he just felt like that imposter syndrome. And I think the narrative in his head was something like, you know, real therapists or real private practice owners don't experience this, you know?

And it's like, the judgment, and like, that layer, that analytical judgment layer we put on top of our emotional experience, that it's wrong, or not right, or it means this or that about us and what our future prospects are. Man, that's where the suffering, I think, really comes in. So, just like, be like, whatever money shit is showing up for you just be like, "Oh, this is happening. This doesn't feel totally comfortable. I'm going to… but, or, and like, and I'm going to just sit here and be curious about what's going on. And maybe I'm going to, you know, maybe bring someone else into that conversation." That's where, like, courage and bravery come in.

And, you know, that can be a coach, like what you do, that can be like an empathetic financial professional, like, I hope I am. And it can also just be a peer or someone, a friend, you know, maybe a significant other, they're not always the best, quite frankly, but like, bring someone into it just to be like, "Hey, like…" You know there's like the term accountability partner. I don't like accountability feels so harsh and rigid to me, I don't…

But you know, there can be help there. But bring in someone else in and like bringing in partnership and just yeah, getting stuff, I think, out of your head especially. And that can even just be writing about like, your money situation, or whatever. Just like writing down here are all my fears, and worries, and anxieties. Here's how… if you feel like everything is messed up, and just a disaster, just like write it all down because like in our head, it just like, it repeats, repeats, repeats, repeats, repeats, and it's just like, I'll drive you crazy. But if you write it out on paper, or type it, whatever, I think that can be super, super helpful just to be like, "Oh, is that all it is? It's just these couple bullet points? All right. Maybe that's not quite as bad as I thought it was. Like, who could help me with this?"

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that's a good point. And I think that internal, like self-talk, can be really shame-inducing, and really negative, and really painful. And, you know, I think that we overanalyze and catastrophize a lot of this and think worst-case scenario.

Like, I struggle with money shit. I had a gambling addiction for a long time. And money is an interesting subject for me. And, you know, my wife often has to tell me like, "We have money. It's okay. We're both doing well right now. Like, you don't have to stress this much."

And a story that always comes up for me financially as a therapist, because you just mentioned like, whoever was on the show, I can't remember maybe it was TJ or maybe it was someone else, but financial stuff and shame comes up as business owners a lot of the time and I remember starting out my private practice, and I was like, pretty, I didn't really know what I was doing like most of us just admitted, right? And can probably resonate with. And I remember having three back to back to back no-shows and I didn't have a cancellation policy in place. I didn't have any credit cards on file. And I just sat in my office like so defeated. And I was like, "Well, I clearly am not going to make it as a business owner."

And it was really painful. And I just sat there for about an hour. And I just thought, "Okay, this sucks. You just missed out on however much money for the night. You're just got to revamp your policy, you're going to make sure you have one, you're going to get the credit card on file, and make sure the client understands the policy."

And it was just kind of transformative in that moment because I was just like, I went from shamefulness, and imposter syndrome, and being defeated to like, "Okay, it sucks, but it's going to be okay." And I think we need those moments as small business owners and as human beings sometimes to just remind us, like, we go through really, really shitty things, and failures, and mistakes. Ultimately, those really feel like learning experiences and ways we can change how we kind of practice moving forward.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah. And, you know, I mean, you can always… like, I love like reframing stuff. It's just like, what a gift that like early in your experience of being a small business owner you had three back-to-back no-shows, and you just got to get all of that feeling felt. And then you said, "You know what? Like, what I need to do is have a policy and enforce it." That might have taken you years to develop had that not happened, right? Because it's like, I know, for myself personally, and I've seen this in like countless other people be the "mistakes" or the experiences that we have that lead to like… that are very, you know, painful, or just like create discomfort.

Man, those lessons are ones we learn. Like, that is a learned lesson. Like, you don't oops, that, you know, you may and if you… because that's also totally okay. Like, it's just part of the journey. But man, like the experiences where I've made mistakes, I don't even like to call them mistakes, but yeah, like, where are there things have happened where I've been like, "Oh, there's a consequence here that has a $1 sign attached to it and it does not feel great." Yeah, like, boy, I learned, and you moved on because like, it's not going to kill you. It'll be okay.

PATRICK CASALE: You have to adapt and grow as an entrepreneur, you have to be able to give yourself permission to fail. And I work with a lot of people who experience tremendous imposter syndrome. And that is a way that, you know, we experience that and we discuss that, right? It's like, you have to give yourself permission to fail and work through that paralyzing perfectionism because otherwise, you're going to pack up shop, and you're not going to make it.

And I think those lessons are really important. And you know, they're going to happen throughout the course of your career. You're going to have those moments where you're like, "Oh, shit, what did I just do?"

You know, I talked about this publicly a couple of weeks ago, I somehow overpaid my clinicians in my group practice last year $75,000 extra because I was double paying co-pays and deductibles. And we were using two different systems because my biller uses one, I use a different one. I was doing both reports, adding them together, doing the percentages, and she was like, "You've been doing this for a year?" I said, "Yeah, I just assumed that your system was just the money that insurance paid, not the co-pays and deductible payments." And she was like, "Oh, boy, you're going to hate when I call you later and run these reports."

And she told me that and there was a lot of shamefulness in that too. And I was just like, "Really, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. And I'm helping other people create their businesses. And how can I be reputable if I just made such a colossal mistake?"

And I had to sit with that for days. And I just thought about, "I'm going to reframe this and just think about it as like bonuses for my clinicians doing hard work in a hard year, and I'll never make that mistake again. And I'm going to own it, I'm going to let them know, right? Like, 'Hey, guys, this is the mistake. No, I'm not asking for this money back. It's my fault. And also, paychecks are going to look different this year because I'm not double paying you.'"

And the only way I could do that is to just be honest, and just admit the failure, or the mistake, or the issue that that I created for myself. I think if I was in my gambling addiction days that would have destroyed me. But thankfully, I've done a lot of work around that shit. And it was just a moment for me where I was like, I know that our business is going to make more money this year, it's going to be a full year of all those clinicians working. And by me not asking for that money back, like a lot of people told me to do, they're going to feel more empowered, and they're going to feel more appreciated. And I think that's going to lead to more quality work in the long run.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, I mean, wow, what an awesome story. And just thanks for having the courage to share that because yeah, I mean, like imposter syndrome, like comes up and kicks around and is like, "Who am I to tell anyone anything if this happened?" But like, you know what? Like, things happen. Like, things just happen. You're not superhuman like perfection is not the standard.

And I think what you said is just like super important. I think that's part of the reason we can get paralyzed when it comes to money stuff is because, you know, like, yeah, when maybe you talk to your clients or your patients, you're encouraging them to be gentle and caring with themselves, and self-compassion, all that good, really, really important stuff. And then when it comes to money stuff it's like, "Okay, well, I can be pretty compassionate with myself in most areas of life but money no man, no mistakes allowed, it has to be perfect."

Oh, we have, you know, there's a part or an aspect of our inner selves that will say that and it's just not true. Like, we don't get anything perfect. Sometimes these things happen. And we catch them when we can catch them. And we just move forward. But yeah, I think it's just so important to just be like, yeah, it happens. Like, things fall apart occasionally. And then we put them back together, and then they fall apart. Like, it's just the cycle of life it's this and business is just a microcosm of overall life. So, you know, why would it be any different?

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, for sure. And I also feel extremely grateful to be able to have made such a colossal mistake and not have had a lot of impact from it because my coaching business did so well last year that it offset. You know, that wouldn't have happened a couple of years ago.

And, you know, we live in a society where we attribute a lot of our self-worth to our work output and to the amount of money that we bring in. And there can be a lot of shame around that because we live in a capitalist society, so clearly, we have kind of had this connection of like, "I'm only as good as my salary, right?" And a lot of people think that way. And that's really painful for people to think about it because it's like, "But I'm not making as much as I should. I'm not making as much as my partner. My friend talks about this amount of money and I'm not even close to that. So, I must not be as competent."

y powerful for [INDISCERNIBLE:

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, yeah. I love what you said, like, money is like a flow. Like, it's an energetic exchange, like it just comes and goes, it moves around, it does these things. Sometimes really great things happen, sometimes less than great things happen. It's just part of the experience. And, I think, yeah, again, just like to normalize that that, like, you know, likely you will never make a mistake quite like that again. And I can almost guarantee you that something will happen that it's going to be like, "Ah, how could this have happened?" That's all right.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. I mean, I just have to get myself permission, otherwise, I couldn't live with it, you know? Because like, my biller is telling me you need to ask those clinicians for that money back over 26 pay periods. And I'm like, "Fuck that, I'm not willing to do that." Like, it's not their fault. I made the mistake. Yeah, I'm beating myself up for it right now. But ultimately, the only way I can make sense of this is, again, like, you all did very hard work during a global pandemic. Just think about it as bonuses for the work that I see you doing. And that I appreciate. And that is the only thing that is within my value system that I could get behind.

So, everyone probably has different perspectives on that. And I think that leadership means admitting mistakes and being transparent when you struggle because, again, that imposter syndrome creeps in, "Why would anyone hire me as a business coach if I just did that?"

And in reality, it's like, maybe it's actually the complete opposite, where people are more willing to hire you because you're willing to admit when you make mistakes or when you struggle. And I think that has been true for my brand over the last two years. It's like, you attract and repel, right? Like, people are going to be attracted to you by what you put out there. And people are going to, you know, not want to have anything to do with you because of what you put out there. So, it's just something to be mindful of.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah. Well, I think, like whomever you're… you know, human beings, we're all human beings, right? Like, clients, like whoever, you know, we want to work with people that we connect with. And like we don't connect with brands, I mean, we kind of connect with brands but not really, we connect with other human beings and human beings are not perfect and we just like we know that even on a subconscious level, so like, even though somebody, you know, on Instagram, an influencer or whatever, like they can project this aura of perfection and airbrush, whatever nonsense.

Honestly, I think people that share, that are authentic, that are like this thing happened, that honesty, and that being real, that authenticity, that's what people connect with. And I think that's why, you know, almost ironically, exposing some of your dirty laundry, if you want to call it that, causes businesses to grow, causes more clients to show up. Yeah, and just being aware of it and just making it part of your story. Yeah, I think, it's like all this stuff, like, normalizing discomfort because, you know, this is from Brene. Brown, but like discomfort, you need to normalize it because that's where learning and growth occur.

And so, if we stay comfortable and we've never experience these uncomfortable realities, if we never try, like, there's a way to never make a mistake and that's to never try anything new or different.

And I don't know about most of you, but like, that just doesn't sound like a very exciting experience of work or life in general. And so yeah, like you say, just like, give yourself permission to fail because like you will, "Fail." Like, you know? A part of you will be like that as a failure. But, oh, there's another part of you in there somewhere that can help you reframe it as something more empowering. And that applies, always, to any situation, especially, the money situations.

PATRICK CASALE: For sure, you know, and I think that we don't grow in places of stillness and comfort, we grow when we step into fear, and discomfort, and push ourselves because we can play it safe and for some people, that's okay. But I don't want to do that, I don't want to be confined to a box and say, "This is the only way to do something." Or, you know, "Only these ideas work or can create success." I think you have to be able to be uncomfortable. And that's really important.

And again, just permission to make these mistakes because they're going to happen. You're a human being. Like, you have human experience, just like everybody else.

And I want to name something, you know, while people are listening. Like, David and I are both white men. Like, we have privilege. And that comes into play with money stuff, too. And I want to acknowledge that because my wife's a black woman who grew up in poverty, her money mindset versus my money mindset are quite different, and for good reason.

So, you know, everyone's stories are a bit different. And I think we need to just really allow ourselves to feel the discomfort and work through the shame that comes up when we feel like we're not doing as well as somebody else. It's just really important everyone to listen to that. So, I think that's something that's just kind of on my mind while we're talking right now.

DAVID FRANK: Now, yeah, thank you for making that point because it is really important, just like to acknowledge privilege and how that shows up and to be willing to work with everyone where they're at, to work with yourself where you're at. Yeah, and just like to bring more awareness and understanding to your own history around money.

And like, we all have different sort of, there's something called money scripts, so like money types. And there's something called the… what is it called? The Klontz Money type assessment, we can put a link in the show notes, but it's really interesting. You can take this like 28 question, I think, survey and that it'll help you understand what your relationship to money is, what your subconscious beliefs around money are because we all have them, typically, formed in childhood, family of origin, we carry them with us, we carry these beliefs, which totally served us and absolutely true for when and where they were developed. And then they show up in our adult lives, and when unexamined or unconscious can cause some suffering for us.

But if we bring awareness to that, and just like, oh, okay, this is why I maybe approach money in this particular way. Like, this is why I spend in certain circumstances, this is why my significant other or my partner and I get into fights because we have these different money scripts running behind the scenes. Like, it is helpful to your relationship to money, it's helpful to your relationship to your partner, just like doing money work. Yeah, it's another opportunity for learning and growth. And that means a little bit of discomfort.

PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think money anxiety is a major source of conflict within relationships. It's just the ability to have those conversations and both understand that you probably come from a different place when it comes to the narrative.

And I think it's really important to just talk about money as human beings in general. You know, I think there's so much that it's because of our own stuff that comes up around. And that's why you probably need to have someone like David in your corner who can help you with that in terms of investing, in terms of safeguarding, in terms of just having some concept of where to go from here.

Can you tell us a little bit about what you do offer people because we definitely want to send people your way, especially, around this subject? So, what can you do for therapists? What do you do for therapists?

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think if people… we even talked a lot about this specifically, but like, if there's one thing I want people to take away from this episode it's that there is help out there, like it was we kind of highlighted before getting vulnerable and seeking help can be a really important, you know, waypoint along the journey.

And I think one of the misunderstandings that people have is that oh, the only financial professionals out there, the only financial planners out there, like, they're not going to help me until I've got tons of money to invest.

And yes, there are a ton of, "Financial advisors and financial professionals." Out there. That is all they do. They just want to help you manage your investments. And there're already a lot of good folks out there like me, I consider myself or call myself a comprehensive financial planner.

So, what does that mean? That means just that, kind of I help people put together financial plans, and they're holistic, or comprehensive. So, it's everything from thinking through how much are you earning. How do you feel about that? Is it meeting your needs? Like, where does it feel uncomfortable? Like, what can we do about that? How are we spending our money? Are we saving? And even, you know, because I work with therapists, and that's, you all are my people, like you are who I work with. So, I also help folks think a little bit through as well like business structure, business entities, having insurance in place, fun things like the S corp tax election, and other smart ways to manage taxes. So, like, it's the whole deal.

And what I always like to say, this is not an original expression, but personal finance, and even private practice finances, but it's personal. Like, there are not a lot of rigid, absolutely, you have to do this or you must, or you should, there are options. And so, what I help people do is tune out all the noise… there's so much noise around money, and investing, and business ownership. I help them kind of tune out the noise, focus on like, what are the facts? What is your situation? Okay, for you here's what makes sense to go investigate more, or here's what makes sense in terms of what kind of plan to put into place so that you lead a great life because that's what this money stuff is about. It's about facilitating a great way of living, a meaningful life, a filled life, a balanced or integrated life, whatever you want that to look like, or however you want it to sound. That's what I'm here to do.

PATRICK CASALE: That's very cool. And I think it's a much-needed service. So, yeah, even if you're listening to this, it's bringing up some shit for you, which I imagine that it is for some of you, just think about even if you are judging yourself for not having a certain amount of money in a retirement account, start today, start putting $25, $50 in it every week. Like, it doesn't have to be a certain approach to it. It will help you work through some of those feelings if you can just start the process. And it doesn't have to be a large investment. It doesn't have to be $50,000, you know, that you don't have. So, just allow yourself to treat yourself like a human being and exude some self-compassion like we teach our clients to do as well. And practice what we preach.

You know, David, I appreciate you being on here. Just tell the audience where they can find you so if they do want to pursue your services they're able to contact you.

DAVID FRANK: Yeah, perfect. So, the best way is to go to my website, it's turningpointhq.com. So, H-Q like the abbreviation for headquarters, turningpointhq. And there you can get to know me.

And also, I just recently put together this little white paper, I guess, called like The Seven Money Mindset Shifts and Reframes That Can Help Reduce Financial or Money Worry. And so, sign up and get that. Like, I think it can help you just engage with your money, and learn some things, and reframe some things. And above all, be kind and compassionate to yourself.

PATRICK CASALE: Love it. Very, very cool, very cool subject that we'll probably continue to talk about in one way or another.


PATRICK CASALE: And if you want to find more of me, we have new podcast episodes at the All Things Private Practice Podcast. Like, download, subscribe, and share. We have coaching, we have retreats at allthingspractice.com. We have free resources and private practice startup guides on the website, upcoming courses, and any other offerings that we have. And my Facebook group, All Things Private Practice. Thanks, David.

DAVID FRANK: Thank you.

About the Podcast

Show artwork for All Things Private Practice Podcast
All Things Private Practice Podcast
Real, authentic conversations about the mental health side of small business ownership and private practice startup.

About your host

Profile picture for Patrick Casale

Patrick Casale

Hi, I'm Patrick. I’m a neurodivergent entrepreneur and therapist who truly believes in the power of disclosure, vulnerability, and authenticity. It’s become more and more clear to me that people are either attracted or repelled by what we put out into the world, and we can’t “be everything for everyone.” Through a lot of trial and tribulation, a gambling addiction, and an Autism/ADHD diagnosis, I’ve learned that being your TRUE self is what draws people in and creates connection. I have tattoos related to Lord Of The Rings, Travel, and Anthony Bourdain. And I travel constantly. Becoming an entrepreneur and working through my fears (they still exist) have allowed me to do more of the things I love. That’s my goal for you with this podcast — to use fear as a gas pedal, not a brake, and to learn how to reclaim and own your voice so that you can create your own entrepreneurial journey.