PATRICK CASALE: As a therapist, how you communicate with clients online is just as important as how you communicate in your sessions. If you use email and web forms they need to be secure and HIPAA compliant. Hushmail takes the guesswork out of secure communication by providing encrypted email, web forms, and eSignatures all in one HIPAA compliant package.
Are you still using paper forms or sending your client's PDFs that they have to print out and scan back? Online forms will save you a ton of time. With Hush Secure Forms you can start with a template and customize it to reflect your practice or use the drag and drop form builder to build forms from scratch with fields for eSignatures, add the forms to your website, or send them through secure email.
Hush Secure Forms also include screening forms, they have a good faith estimate template to ensure you're in compliance with the No Surprises Act. Your clients will spend less time in the waiting room and more time getting the care that they need.
Go to try.hushmail.com/allthings and enjoy the first month of your plan for free.
Hey, everyone, you are listening to another episode of the All Things Private Practice Podcast. I am Patrick Casale. I'm here in Asheville, North Carolina, joined by my friend Shaelene Kite, in New Jersey. She's an LPC. She is a group practice owner, DBT of South Jersey. She is passionate about all things DBT. She is now a speaker, this year, speaking at a conference in Hawaii, and just a really, really cool clinician that's doing things very differently, trying to highlight people who are authentic, stepping into what's important to them and aligned with their values. So Shaelene, thank you so much for being on here.
SHAELENE KITE: Thanks for having me. I'm super pumped, as usual, to hang out. So, this is really nice. Thanks.
PATRICK CASALE: I want to talk a little bit about what we were just talking about. You have a new venture, and I want to talk about the fearfulness, and putting it all together. I also want you to use this as accountability to make sure that that website goes up and everything gets posted by the time this launches. So, tell us a little bit about what you just told me that you're creating and that you're really passionate about right now?
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, so I started a new… and it's funny, you know, as I was describing it to you prior to recording, I was like, "Well, you know, it's an LLC, so it's a legitimate business." I don't know why I'm like, I think that's how fear shows up. Like, we start minimizing and I'm like, "I think I'm doing like some coaching and training, and it's like this little thing I'm doing." But meanwhile, I've been working on this for like a freaking year. It's not a little thing. It's a huge thing. So, thank you for kind of like getting me to a place there.
Yeah, I started another business, specifically, for training and consulting, specializing in the areas of DBT, and yoga, and trauma, and doing some coaching, specifically, for group practice owners who want to put those things into their practice. So, DBT group practice owners and practice owners who are looking to integrate more embodied practices in their clinical work.
And it's called RebelMente and at the time of recording this, like, not many people know it even exists because the website isn't done, the Instagram page is there with nothing on it. So, it'll be done very soon and this definitely keeps me accountable to making sure that it does get done. But I've been working really hard on it for the past year or so. And I'm proud of what it is going to become, even though it's not all the way there yet because I feel like really good about it.
PATRICK CASALE: I love that. And can you tell us what RebelMente means and where this originated?
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, RebelMente is a made-up Spanglish word, which is super appropriate for me because I'm Puerto Rican who can't really speak Spanish, and so, I just kind of like get by. And so, RebelMente is the word rebel and mente means mind, so for me, it's like this rebellious mindset, which like, doesn't necessarily, yeah, I think like for some people, RebelMente, when they look at the word will know, like, "Okay, well, what is Shaelene doing?" But if they know me, they'll know what it's about and so they'll read more about it and I think that's what's important.
Like, the idea and the concept just came from, like, I think more the energy that I have around sharing this kind of stuff with other people, talking about DBT, training other clinicians how to be not only really great DBT clinicians, but also just like inspiring people to get out of the box and not just see, getting trained in one particular way. Like, I want to do things how I want to do them because I think that it's gone really well and I've had really great relationships with my clients. And you know, obviously, in becoming a group practice owner you kind of get to this place where it's like, okay, I feel really good about what I'm putting into the world, but I'm only going to be able to reach so many people.
And so then, you know, you hire staff, and you know, the impact spreads there, and now I'm at the place where it's like, I want bigger impact because more people need to hear about this stuff. And I also don't want people feeling like DBT needs to look a certain way, being a therapist, being a group practice owner, or being a yoga teacher. Like, all of these things I've experienced on the other end of like, feeling like I'm not doing it right or I'm messing this up, and so I just want to get all of that out of there. And I think RebelMente feels to me like this… not like you've got good stuff to offer, let's help shape that stuff up and get it out there to the people who really need it.
PATRICK CASALE: Damn and I can sense how passionate you are as you start talking about it, which is a very different energy than what you just told me before we pressed record, which was like, "And it's okay-
SHAELENE KITE: I know, it was like, kind of like little thing I'm doing, yeah, thank you.
PATRICK CASALE: So, what comes up for you? You mentioned fearfulness as you started talking about this. Is it like the typical imposter syndrome/like are people going to think this is good?ate practice client, this was:
And so, it just kind of like shows the example of, you know, fear comes with change and especially big changes. And so, at the time, like seeing clients privately, that was a huge deal for me, and then going from full-time to part-time where I have enough clients, and then leaving the agency, opening up the group practice. Like, my mom's voice is coming into my head. She's always like, "New level new devil." Which I like don't love her little phrases.
But it's true. Like, at every juncture, I mean, I am faced with this, like, am I going to be able to do this? And I just need to, like, tap into that part of me that was like, "Yeah, of course, you are." Like, you do all the things that you set your mind to, but for sure. Stepping into the coaching space and training, especially, I feel like in at least for me in DBT, and it probably feels like this in other modalities, EMDR, you know, whatever, but I feel like, you know, I have like trepidations around like, do I belong here? Like, are people going to be like, "Why the hell is she even doing trainings? Like, what does she know?" You know? So, definitely, yeah, that comes up.
But I feel like, at least coming up with the name RebelMente, I'm like, you can't bring that energy with that kind of name. You know what I mean? Like, you got to go all in. So, that's what I'm trying to… I keep coming back to that, I guess, that's the way that I try to get through. But for sure, it's there, always shows up.
PATRICK CASALE: Always shows up, right? I think that's a good marker of being successful, is acknowledging it, not letting it paralyze you, noticing when it happens, right? It is when we are growing and changing and that stuff is scary.
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And also reminding yourself, like you said, you have been in places like this before, it's been scary, and you've been okay, and it's been successful. And I really think we need to remember that. I like your mom saying not, maybe like, the, you know-
SHAELENE KITE: I know.
PATRICK CASALE: …the message is real, right? It's like, yeah, this is real. And I want to circle back to like, leaving your agency job, telling your client that you charge $50, right? Like, we have all these markers and then it's like, why was I so fucking scared? Like, what was I so scared about? And I think it's like being seen and people thinking, "Am I qualified enough or competent enough to do this?"
SHAELENE KITE: Oh, 100%. Like, the competency is a big thing, I think, with this last because then you always look back, at least for me, like, I always look back at that, and I'm like, "Girl, like, why are you so afraid to charge $50?" That client, that same client, by the way, who still like sees me every now and then now, she told me, "Shaelene, like you have to charge more." It's like, "Okay."
But I just think like, it's so easy to look back in your rear view and say, Damn, like, why did I waste all that energy, you know, worrying and being afraid of all those things. And I could think of that. I can reflect on that on like every level of moving up, and now I'm at the level of like, do I have something meaningful to say in a bigger setting?
And so, my opposite action to shame and imperfection practice is just to, like, do all of the things that make me feel uncomfortable and put myself out there, because if I don't have any evidence or data to back it up, like if I don't do it, then I'm never going to have any evidence or data. So, I sign myself up for stuff like this, and I kind of like called out being a speaker, like, oh, I've got stuff to say. So, I'm going to sign up to be a speaker, and I haven't done it before. It's going to be like fucking nerve-wracking, but I'm going to do it. And so I just keep trying to push myself. So, I'll get uncomfortable. But I'll come out on the other side, one way or another, you know?
PATRICK CASALE: That's really powerful. And I think, hopefully, everyone that's listening to that, you know, I just released an episode today on imperfect action, just having to put these things out there, even though we're really scared about how they're going to end up, and one way or another, you're going to be okay, whether it crashes and burns the first time or whether it's wildly successful. You will still be okay. But I would rather try and be bold and courageous than prevent myself from moving forward, or growing, or seeing where this could take me and it sounds like that's the embodiment of the RebelMente philosophy, is being bold, and being courageous, and doing things differently. Can you tell me how you got into speaking in Hawaii this summer? Like, said I have shit to say, so I just let Ernesto know that.
SHAELENE KITE: You know, one good thing that came out of the pandemic is like all of the Facebook friends and connections, you know, meeting you, and my girl Katie Mae, and Ernesto, like so many people that I think like the pandemic just kind of drew us all in. And it was like, what's everyone doing? And then people did new stuff, and it was cool to watch people do new stuff. And so, there was just like this group that kind of formed through me, in terms of like new friendships and watching like really amazing people do really cool shit.e-pandemic. So, like, January:
And so immediately, I talked to him about all the logistical things, and I'm like, "How do I do exactly what you're doing? Like, you are laying on a chair right now with a drink in your hand, doing a consultation, and everyone's out, like your big summit."
And then I, you know, join the Facebook group, I see all the pictures, and I'm like, "I got to get here." Like, this is like a big, like, goal, finding ways for work to pay for me to like travel. I just enjoy life with people around me. So, I'm like, I got to get in with this guy, and I send that straight out.And so,:
And so we're just kind of like laughing it off and stuff, but in my mind, I'm like, "I'm getting in there, man." Like, "Yeah, sure, okay, cool." Like, "Ha ha ha, I'm not kidding." So, he goes, and whatever, and he started posting about the Not Your Typical Therapist, I know that some of you are speaking at in May, and I just started texting. I was like, "Listen, like, what's going on with the Hawaii? How do I get in there?"s, and it was like [INAUDIBLE:
And I think, like, in this regard, if I have a bunch of clinician's attention, I want to talk to them about trying to find ways to make therapy not so like cognitive and talking all the time and think about like the rest of the body, that's a part of the client, not just their mind and their head as they're going through therapy.
And so, he gave me his time, and he read my email, and he called me up, and he was like, "Yo, I was blown away. Come speak in Hawaii." And I was like, "Yeah." So it's funny, because people were like, "What are you talking about?" I'm like, "I'm not really sure. Like, I know the topic, and I've got my outline, and I'm sure when I'm there I'm going to be like nervous as hell, but I'm going to do it. And, yeah, I'm super pumped about it."
PATRICK CASALE: That's amazing and all from just putting yourself out there and allowing yourself to be vulnerable to potential rejection too.
SHAELENE KITE: For sure.
PATRICK CASALE: But also being confident enough to be like, this is going to be good. I know what I'm doing, right? So, it's like that polarizing thought process in a way. I'm not going to lie that my process was not eerily similar for the Not Your Typical Psychotherapy Conference. But like, "Hey, man, I've got shit to say, right? Like people seem to like what I have to talk about, like, let's make this happen." And he Facebook voice messaged me like, "I'm just reaching out to all the speakers for Not Your Typical Psychotherapy Conference." And I was like, it's very cool how like there's a lot of fearfulness in that process, but it also can lead to such incredible results. And I think we have to embrace fear, and we have to step into it in order to grow and to pursue goals and see where things go because otherwise, we're just holding ourselves back.
And I see so much of that with a lot of limiting belief of, like, "I don't have anything to offer. I don't know who I am, or what skills are applicable outside of the therapy room, and how these can be useful." And it sucks to see that, but it's so cool to see so many entrepreneurs right now who are doing things outside of the box, and really like getting away from traditional talk therapy.
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah and I feel like, I mean, it kind of has to, like look at the way that things have been for the past couple of years. Like, things are not normal and sitting in a room with someone, and just like unconditional positive regard. Like, that's not going to cut it. Like, these people in the world, us, us people, like we're freaking struggling man. Like, stuff's hard out there. And I need to bring that like realness to section, and I want other therapists to do it too.
And it doesn't fit for everyone and I don't think, like, people should be who they aren't. But I think people are out there and they need real people. Like, they need real genuine compassion and not compassion in like a written sense. Like, follow the script, here's what you learned in grad school, but in like, "Yo, I hear you, and I've got you." Like, it just needs to be real, whatever that looks like for people.
And, you know, what you were saying earlier about the fear, I was listening to a podcast recently with James Clear who wrote Atomic Habits, like obsessive love book, by the way, he said that he started using fear as his gas pedal instead of his brake. And it's interesting because like, as we talk this stuff out, you know, I can hear stuff from you, I reflect on things from my own of where like, I was like, "That's kind of scary. I think I'm, okay, well, like, I'm going to do it, I'm going to move forward, I'm going to do it."
I don't necessarily consider myself, like, a very, I want to say brave because like I can reflect back, and be like, "Okay, cool. Like, that was brave, or that was courageous." But like, I'm not freaking anxious person, like nine out of 10 a lot of the time.
So, also I don't want kind of a lot of people listening to this who are people who are kind of contemplating, like, what their next move is going to be, and I know that your space is a lot of inspiring people to kind of just, like, take the jump, if you fall, you fall, and get up and go on to the next thing. To me, it's just like such a tragedy to hear people holding all of this like, "Oh, well, I think I would speak about this, or I might write this book on this, or I might do a podcast on this." But like not do it because they're afraid of what might happen. It's just like wasted talent. And the world needs everyone's gifts like full force right now.
So, I think like for myself recently, I'm trying to view like these big oh shit scary moments like, let's drive forward and you know, see what happens. We'll figure it out when we get there.
PATRICK CASALE: I want to just like sit with that for a second for the audience to listen to that because that was really powerful. And using that as a gas pedal instead of a break is so crucial. And I think if we feel that fearfulness start to bubble up, that imposter syndrome, that anxiety, and I'm also a very anxious person nine out of 10 all the time, we're probably on the right track. And we have to almost reflect back to other times we felt that way and think about the outcome. And 99% of the time, it probably worked out pretty well by pursuing something that felt scary or bigger than ourselves at the time or insurmountable. Do you ever seen the movie Bronx Tale? I was just thinking about a clip from that.
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah.
PATRICK CASALE: And he's like, the worst thing in the world is wasted talent. And-SHAELENE KITE: [CROSSTALK:
PATRICK CASALE: It's a great movie. And I'm like, I agree with that. Like, it's like the worst thing in the world is-
SHAELENE KITE: …wasted talent.
PATRICK CASALE: …wasted talent and we are creative human beings. We've proven that through a global pandemic, to see so many people, like you said, struggling. We need authentic, real human showing up in helping spaces. And that doesn't have to look black and white. And that's really relatable because this is a unique time where we are all struggling simultaneously. Like, I have therapy clients tell me about their struggle and I'm like, "Yeah, me too." But that's real. And like, we're all in this right now. And we're like, when is the ship going to end, you know? I have COVID as we're talking, and it's like, I do think that we need more and more people to move into that space of like, I'm just going to like claim my power, and I'm going to embrace who I am, and I'm going to put it out to the world, and not everybody is going to like that, and that is okay.
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, there's like, you know, as you were talking, I'm thinking about, I mean, it's really like a beautiful thing to think of, that's not what we need right now. We don't need this like checkbox of things, we don't need like the perfect therapist, we just need people who are going to be real. We're all going through this stuff and it's like, it doesn't seem like it's ending anytime soon. It's exhausting, it's tired, and we're all going through it at the same time.
And the beauty in what you're just talking about is like when we can let go of the perfectionism, imposter, stuff that comes up, like, we can connect. We can't do that when we're all worried about what everyone else thinks about. And so, when you share how you feel, like you, Patrick, when you share how you feel because you talk about this stuff all of the time, like it does for me, like and I've only just met you like not too long ago, but I mean, like, I feel connected to you in that way because I'm like, "Oh, great. That's okay."
Like, it doesn't have to look perfect. It doesn't have to be this way. And like there's a real beauty in shared experience of just common humanity. Like, this is what we're all going through and it makes it really hard to connect with one another and to really empathize with one another when we've got our walls up because we're afraid of how it's going to look. And you know, at the end of the day, like, it may look messy, but at least it's real. And you know, at least it's authentic, at least true to you.
PATRICK CASALE: Couldn't have said it better myself. And I think the more we share, and disclose, and show up in an authentic way, we attract and repel. Obviously, we attract people who are like, "Yeah, that's how I feel." Or, "I feel similarly." And maybe some people don't like it and that's okay. I think it normalizes, like you said, the human experience, right? Like, we all fucking struggle in one way or another. We don't have to suffer in silence, you know? We can speak about this stuff.
Even as helping professionals, we can talk about the fact that we also struggle. I think there's this like mirage of, "We're helpers, we've been through our master's programs, we have to be blank slates all the time." And that just really makes me so frustrated, and so angry because I think that some sort of disclosure, not self-serving disclosure, but disclosure, sharing experience is relatable, normalizing, and builds rapport and trust with clients and others much quicker than just pretending as if nothing impacts you.
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, I kind of say, I think that's one thing that I feel like I'm thankful that, again, like over the pandemic Facebook season, I feel the attraction and I feel the repellent. And the rebellion is more of like, "Hey, like, you know, take what fits and leave what doesn't, and if I'm not your cup of tea like that's okay." You know? And so, it really works out in a nice way because you're around people who you want to be around. And I've been pleasantly pleased to see just posts and what people talk about on Facebook as like the network has really grown about being more authentic and about being more real because I think, like previously, I know, there have been times where myself and other therapists have butted heads with those kinds of things. I think one thing in my favor in doing DBT, and I'm sure there are probably even other people who do DBT who may not be aligned with this idea as much as I am.
But like, in DBT, there are six levels of validation, and they kind of like go up in intensity. So, the first level is just like being awake, and present, and like nodding, and you know, then it's like reflecting back and mind reading. But level six, the highest level of validation is called radical genuineness, and radical genuineness and DBT is about like, I'm not an expert, we're just two humans here trying to figure this stuff out.
And radical genuineness and DBT actually, like, speaks to the idea of sharing things about your life that are going on, like, yeah, sorry, like, I have COVID too and then this sucks, or, you know, like, whatever it is that your client's going through, and it's getting rid of this, like old dusty idea that, like, if you share anything with your clients, then you're violating some sort of boundary or something like that.
And like, I think, unfortunately, there have been a lot of experiences I've even seen with clients who have come to me where they've had like damaging experiences with therapists who have shamed them for just being like, human, you know? Like, "Hey, do you have kids?" "Well, why do you want to know?" Like, well, like, that's such a bizarre response to such a normal question. Or like, somebody, you know, like a client, "Oh, you know, I heard it was your birthday, I brought you a cup of coffee." Or something like that, "Well, we don't accept gifts here." It's like, okay, but these are like normal social things, like, sure, don't buy me a diamond ring because that would be really weird. And we'd have to talk about that.
But I just think, like, somewhere in the process of like graduate school, and liability, and, you know, probably working at agencies and needing to have policies for hundreds of therapists all do the same thing, we kind of like lost our common humanity and our ability to have relationships in therapeutic relationships. And so, you know, it's kind of ironic, but it's refreshing to hear people kind of being like, "Listen, this is how I'm going to do therapy and if you like it, great, and if you don't, that's fine, too. Just keep it moving." But I want to be around more people who are in line with, you know, the way that I'm seeing things and doing things. So, I think that's what helps.
PATRICK CASALE: Damn, Shaelene's come in and just dropping truth bombs left and right today, loving this. And I think you're so spot on and I like to practice the same way in everything that I do. I was just talking about this. And I think if we want to find fulfillment, and contentment, and joy, and satisfaction, and motivation to do our jobs, or pursue our passions, like, we have to be aligned with our values, too. And authenticity is a big value for me. I'm not a fan of disingenuous human beings or like people who are just not authentic. It's just, I have to operate that way in terms of what is important to me. So, I like that there is a mass movement right now in Not Your Traditional Psychotherapy. I mean, Ernesto has a hand in that but a lot of therapists are just moving away from, like, this is how things are supposed to be done.
And we're also seeing a mass exodus from the insurance panels too because people don't want to have treatment and support dictated by what feels evidence-based or how many sessions you can get someone's problem solved.
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, or how much somebody thinks your work should be worth which is like a big not okay in my book.
PATRICK CASALE: Totally, spot on. Yeah, I think I'm going to name this episode Radical Genuineness. Like-
SHAELENE KITE: I love it.
PATRICK CASALE: I think that's perfect because, you know, that's kind of the emphasis of this podcast. And I struggle a lot when people are like, what's your podcast about? I'm like, "I don't fucking know how to explain that. But I think it's about having real conversations and being more authentic as entrepreneurs and human beings, and really just experiencing human experience together." So, you know, I appreciate you sharing all of that. It's really helpful for me to hear even on the side of the screen as well. Very, very cool.
So Shaelene, while we're talking, like, you have so much going on, you've got this group practice, you just purchased a building, I'm going to put you on the spot so you can take that in and hopefully feel a little pride in that-
SHAELENE KITE: Thank you.
PATRICK CASALE: …speaking at conferences, you're going on podcasts, you've created, you know, the RebelMentee coaching program, like, how are you feeling about all this? And where can people find more of Shaelene and all of the stuff that she's creating?
SHAELENE KITE: Yeah, I'm feeling good in moments. Like, it's a surreal experience to, you know, we were talking about this earlier, like, I think some of us in this group, like the entrepreneur, the… what is it? Like, the always hungry mindset. Like, it's a pro and a con for sure. Like, I'm always like, what's next? What's next? What's next? And so, the great thing about that is I'm like super freaking driven. And if I have the thought, like, "I don't know if I can do it." I'm like, "All right, I'm going to do it." And that's, you know, a huge strength. But then the downside of that is like, when am I going to stop? And do I want to be doing this? Like, I have to notice that and really be able to kind of like coast intentionally instead of just like, I'm doing this just to do it. Or if I know that I'm doing it just to do it, but like, that's a decision that I actually want to make.
So, because of that, I think like, I have the tendency to move through things pretty quick and not really like sit and be like, "Holy shit. Like, that was really cool." And so, it usually happens in moments and reflections where I'm like, "Oh, shit, I bought a building. That's cool. Like, I own that I'm going to pay myself rent from my own business. I'm going to pay my other business rent." Like, that's freaking cool.
So, I'm kind of like taking that step in and I'm sure as more stuff comes along I'll continue to have those moments of reflection, which I feel like, you know, that's kind of good, too. It keeps me grounded without me getting like lost in, "Oh, this is so great and wonderful." It's like, yeah, it is, and like, okay, on to the next thing.first established, it was in:
And DBT of South Jersey did not have a space until 2018 and at the time I had no idea what it would look like. And so, even though now I'm like, "Yeah, RebelMente is out there, and you know, the website will be done, and all these other things." Like, I also know that I have the ability to, like, fill the train tracks before the train is running through the town at all. So, I trust in that and I hope that people who are listening, if they're sitting on ideas like that, you know, that they feel maybe like a little bit more inspired to just take like one step. And then, you know, maybe the next day you take another and maybe you don't, but at some point, if you just keep tying together these little actions from the dreams that you've had, then, you know, who knows where you'll be sitting on?
And I think like, that's another really cool thing is, like, I don't really sit down because I'm moving so fast. I don't really sit down and think like, "Wow, what's it going to look like? Like, what am I going to look like when I sit down and retire?" I'm doing some pretty cool stuff now. So, who knows what that could be, but that's okay, I like surprises.
PATRICK CASALE: I love this. I mean, I think all of that resonates for so many people, myself included. Like, not being able to take it in, always moving on to the next thing. I'm definitely trying harder to, like, okay, you've done some cool shit this year. Like, look at how far this has come since you left your community mental health job. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah, but like, what's next? So good reminder, good reflection, good time to kind of get introspective, and also, just like Shaelene said, like, just put it out there. I had my podcast episode today and most of my podcast episodes are about that imperfect action of, like, you build the plane as you fly it, so to speak. Like, it's not about the end result, it's not about perfecting it, and then releasing it. It's much more about just being like, here's my idea and now I'm going to figure it out because it's out to the world. And that's an accountability measure, too.le recommendations [CROSSTALK:
SHAELENE KITE: Listen, I could [INAUDIBLE 00:29:47] so yeah, anyone who's listening Patrick is just like such a sweet person. This guy, you know, I messaged him on Facebook, we're in that. This is a part of the Facebook growth pandemic circle, and I'm like, "Hey, I'm going to Ashville, can I get some recommendations?" And you gave me. Like, it was the most thorough and then you were checking in. You were like, "How was your dinner last night at Asheville Proper?" And I'm like, "It was wonderful." Like, [INAUDIBLE 00:30:08]. You know, like this guy was really there for it and then you came out and hung out with me like my high school friends. It was just so awesome. So, I appreciate it.
However, I was with like 10 other people, and there were times I just had to do the touristy things. I get it. I know, I was like letting him do… He was like, "You break by heart. Like, you're going to all the touristy spots." But I just so appreciated that time and now I'm like even more pumped to go to Nashville, and see you in Hawaii, and it's going to be such great times. I'm so excited.
PATRICK CASALE: Me too and sometimes, you know, you were a tourist, so you get to be a tourist. I get it, I'm just actually opposite. My wife's like, "Can we just do like one touristy thing on this vacation." Like, "No, fuck that. I'm not doing it."
SHAELENE KITE: Oh, no vacation? You don't want to do touristy things on any vacation, you're like anti-tourist?n when it comes to [CROSSTALK:
SHAELENE KITE: No, I get that too. And I appreciate it like the inside stuff because people like when they come to South Jersey, people are like because we're right near Philly, so they're like, "Oh, I want to get a cheesesteak." And then, everyone goes to like these little touristy [CROSSTALK 00:31:16]. Yeah, and it's terrible, it's terrible. Like, there's so many other good cheesesteaks in South Jersey even, so I get that, I get it.
PATRICK CASALE: This has been a pleasure and I'm looking forward to seeing you speak in Hawaii. I hope if anyone's listening to this, maybe you consider going out to Kona for Ernesto's connections summit out there in August and you can find more of me at allthingspractice.com for individual and group coaching. If you want to start, grow or build your private practice, if you want to listen to the podcast, it's the All Things Private Practice Podcast and Facebook group. Shaelene, thanks so much for being on here. And we will see everyone next Monday. We release episodes every Monday morning.